Post 9/11 World Very Unhappy To Live In

Eminent historian Mushirul Hasan speaks to Manish Chand about the sharpening divide between the Muslim world and the West, the prospects of democratization in the Middle East, the continuing spurt in anti-Americanism and possibilities of a genuine dialogue among cultures in a post 9/11 world.

Q) Is the world safer five years after the 9/11 terror attacks in New York and Washington? Do you think that the much-touted clash of civilizations has become a reality of sorts and there is less understanding and tolerance in the world than before?

A) I believe today a set of factors, conditions and circumstances leading to a clash of civilizations has sharpened. Those who had a vested interest in putting forward this thing must be smiling and laughing. They couldn’t believe what they were saying then would become so successful.

Certainly, the US government headed by George Bush and his advisers have done all they could possibly do to bring about this clash. They are deliberately creating conditions in which they themselves see Islam as the enemy and the other. They have through their actions forced the Muslims to believe that the West is the Other. There is a very real danger to this world unless the US very strongly and effectively dispels these impressions.

All said and done, as an intellectual I feel that one was better off in a cold war world because depending on one identity, one could choose one’s friend. Today, people like us who are not necessarily politically aligned but who are committed to certain causes such as the Palestinian cause, feel a sense of anger and anguish at the American display of power. This is a very unhappy world to live in because it’s so completely and unjustly dominated by the US where the government day in and day out flout decent principles enunciated by the Lincolns and Jeffersons. And what is sad is that the art of deception is crafted in such a way that it misleads even the most enlightened of American public opinion.

Q) As a historian, how do you look at the American hubris that is often projected in a US’ brazen display of power and foreign policy choices?

A) As a historian, I feel it’s very clear that you may get away by murdering Afghans, Palestinians and civilians in Iraq, but someday things may just turn out more unpleasant. Nobody wants to support terror. Nobody wants to hurt civilians. What, I think, the world expects of the powerful is justice for those who have been dispossessed in their homelands and those who cry for freedom to decide their destiny.

Anybody who has some sense of history should know that there is an ebb and flow of civilizations. There is no permanence to any civilization. They should know from history how the high noon of imperialism was eclipsed by a short man called Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi. Faith teaches us to be modest, generous and tolerant to others.

Q) Why does America evoke so much suspicion and paranoia in the Muslim world?

A) The US government is unpopular because it is equated with belligerence, intolerance and self-righteousness — all against the Christian faith to which the present rulers of the US subscribe to.

Q) Why just blame America for a hundred ills the world is saddled with? Isn’t it time for Muslim countries to look within and find right answers to their predicament?

A) Post 9/11, there are important lessons to be learnt by the Muslim community themselves. The stranglehold of the orthodoxy, especially in its political and religious form, has to be loosened and slackened. The answer lies in more and more Muslim communities moving towards democracy. There is no short-cut to democracy.

It’s very important to change the face of Muslim societies, not in terms of simply making concessions to the West but in terms of engaging the world that has left them behind for a variety of reasons. The Muslim rulers can’t be expected to be abdicate or relinquish power; it has to wrested by the people. The pharaohs in Egypt will have to go. There is no place for pharaohs in the modern world. If the 9/11 and its aftermath raises questions in the minds of the Muslim intelligentsia, then we can probably hope that the bitter encounter with the West will not take place.

Q) Do you see any tangible signs of introspection and soul-searching in Muslim societies?

A) The stirring has already taken place. You will find people raising questions they never asked. Debates, political and theological, are already taking place in the Muslim world. Unless there is a change in the composition of the ruling classes, unless there is a democratization of these societies, I don’t see any fundamental social and intellectual restructuring of these societies. Americans should stay out of this process which is already taking place. Let the Muslims decide what kind of democracy they want.

If the American government is serious about the revival of democracy in the Middle East, it should keep its hands off. If they continue like this the danger to their security would increase if disaffection amongst the common people spreads as rapidly as it has over the last six or seven years. The point is that the American government should not feel safe with autocratic monarchies. The assumption that American interests are better safeguarded under a non-democratic system has been proved wrong by the emergence of Osama bin Laden and the al-Qaeda network that operates in countries which are America-friendly.

.Q) Why has anti-Americanism become a kind of creed for many in the Muslim world?

A) Anybody who takes on the US is a friend for large sections of misguided people. Al-Qaeda is perceived as the only body, which has the strength and the willingness to take on the US. Al-Qaeda say they are speaking in the name of Muslims, but they are in actual fact speaking of Muslims, specially those Muslims who are oppressed in this world. Earlier, you could be oppressed by the British, the Russians and others. The sources and manifestations of oppression were diverse and diffuse. Today, it appears to be concentrated in only one source — the US. The US is the chief source of the ills of the Muslim society. Anger is totally directed against the US.

Q) But isn’t there a kind of schizophrenia in the Muslim world vis-á-vis America? Many Muslims, specially the youth, are attracted to America at the same time and see it as a byword for good progressive life.

A) I agree that there is an element of schizophrenia. One has to balance this critique of America with a certain fascination for America. Besides, there is a powerful and strong body of opinion in America that doesn’t endorse the policies and attitudes of George Bush and company. We should not weaken our friends in the US and their commitment to liberal and pluralistic society.

Q) Post 9/11, how do you see the situation of the Muslims in India?

A) There is a large Muslim population here. The government recognizes that a majority of them are backward and need special attention. The rise of al-Qaeda is a response to the increase in rightwing militancy in many parts of the world, including in the US, Israel and parts of East Europe. You can’t expect 150 million Muslims to be insulated from what is happening in the outside world. There has been a rise of Hindu militancy as well that has cost the nation dearly. A lot of Muslims feel estranged from the society because of deprivation and exclusion. The Hindu militancy targets their identity.

Q) You said the clash of civilizations has only sharpened over the last five years since the apocalyptic attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York. Do you see any hope for a dialogue among cultures?

A) This dialogue is being dismissed by some as counter-productive and one-sided, dominated as it is by the whims and wishes of the US. The dialogue among cultures should be revived. But it should be based on a clear premise that the US would honour independence and sovereignty of nations. Increasingly, Muslims are being seen as hostile, fundamentally flawed and fundamentalists. There is no empathy and understanding of who they are. This generation of Muslims, who has no base either in their homeland or in their adopted country, suffers from a deep sense of alienation.

Q) So, if the US is the source of all the ills the Muslim world is heir to, the solution should come from the US as well?

A) A major initiative should emanate from the US. The first step should be to vacate aggression in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine and not to meddle in the affairs of Iran, Syria and Lebanon. Give these countries a break to chalk out their destiny. Let the people breathe freely and let their voices be heard and not just the voices of the ruling class. A writer must talk in the language of Faiz Ahamd Faiz.

“Rakht-I-dil baandh lo
Dil tigaro chalo
Phir hameen qatl ho
Aiye yaro chalo”